So I've had this conversation a few times with Jaime. Jaime and I were raised with the same background, and yet have managed to develop different, and yet similar views on God and life. It's fun to get into theological debates with her because no matter what she'll still love me, and I'll still love her. It doesn't matter if we sound like heretics, we know we're just asking questions. Although every once in a while we do leave a little bit bigger space between us, just in case lightning does strike from above... LOL. So my theme over the last few years has been confession. It's really been bugging me, and I'm not sure what to make of it, so I'll throw it out there and see what you all think.
I'm not sure if I can actually formulate what I am thinking, but here goes a very crude attempt.
Some of you may or may not know that God and I have been feuding for a few years. Ok, it's probably more me then God, but still there's a feud, and that's that. I think we all go through phases where we are closer and not as close to God. I know through all of this that yes, I am a Christian, and yes, God loves me, and in a weird way I've still been very aware of my responsibility to honor Christ. Maybe a better way to say that is I've still listened to my conscience. Even though at times I have wanted to chuck Christianity and all the hullabaloo that goes with it, I still listened to that little Baptist school girl voice in the back of my head. I do believe it was not that long ago that I actually said... if I could go back, I'd take back my conversion and run from Christianity as fast as I could. It's a big commitment, this living for God thing.
I'm not someone who takes commitment lightly. I don't do things half hearted. I'm in or I'm out, that's kinda the way I work. So for years I was In... I was soooo in. I'd watch my friends do stupid things, and I'd pray for them. I'd dispense my spiritual wisdom, I'd sit back and wait for them to figure things out, and if I were totally honest I was probably a little smug that I was still the good Christian and they were not.
I did most everything right. There was list of rules, and I followed them. Sure I screwed up, I'm not perfect, but overall... I was doing pretty good. Then the proverbial shit started to hit the fan. I think it started when my grandpa died. My grandpa was like a father to me. I think as a kid I spent more time with grandma and grandpa then I did my own parents. It through me for a loop, because he was a good Christian man, who was reduced to nothing because of cancer. It was a horrible, painful process to watch. After grandpa, there was a ton of other things that just happened. Disappointment, disillusionment, overall... a bunch of crap. I was ticked. I am still ticked. I was ticked at God, I am still.... not necessarily ticked, but we'll say steamed. LOL. I had a pastor tell me once that it's ok to say you're mad at God cuz he knows, and you're not fooling him if you say your not. So there... I was Ticked at God. Now... it's not so much as ticked it's more steamed... shaken, not stirred. Whatever.
Recently I've started to really question all things spiritual. Where am I, what the heck am I doing, what the heck am I supposed to do, does God still love me, is he really the crabby person he's always made out to be, does he really care if I have a beer, or swear like a trucke? I don't know, I don't know the answers but what is REALLY bugging me is the confession thing.
My problem here is this... we were always taught that if you prayed but had unconfessed sin in your life then God isn't listening. I have this vision of God saying... "Talk to the hand sister!" Anyway I kinda took this stance a few years ago that I was NOT going to pray. Not because I was mad, but because I was struggling and I didn't want to be the person that only prayed when things were bad. I mean I'd say thanks for this and that when stuff happened, I'd thank him for my family, my husband, my son, but I didn't really request anything because I didn't want to be the... "Hey God.. it's been 6 months, sorry, but could you miraculously give me 20 bucks, that'd be great" person. I wasn't into that. So I didn't .
Now over the course of the years, I've done things that were definitely sins in Gods book. Hello who hasn't!? But do I need to go through and confess each of these to be "Right" with the Lord? What if one sin is a clear cut absolute SIN and I'm not sorry for it? What if I'm sorry for circumstances but not the sin itself. I am not going to confess something that I'm not sorry for, and just say I'm sorry, to be "Right with God." And besides... who do I think I'm fooling anyway?
Can you be right with God, or move forward in a relationship with him, while still having a black mark on your record? It's like this... Divorce... is it a sin? Well, God hates it. Is it something that I need to say I'm sorry for? Cuz I'm not. I mean, I'm sorry about the outcome, I'm sorry that it didn't work, but I'm NOT sorry that I was the one that filed. I'm NOT sorry that it has happened. I'm NOT sorry, so does that mean God is just going to make me talk to the hand? Maybe this was a bad example, but it's the best I can do right now.
Maybe there will come a day when I can honestly say I'm sorry.I'm sorry for this thing or that, that, that I have done. But for now that day isn't here. And if it isn't here, and God doesn't want to listen to me, or have anything to do with me until I pony up and say I'm sorry.... then why the heck am I going to church? And for that matter, if He was mad at me, or telling me to talk to the hand, then why would things in my life be going as well as they are? I take different signs, and situations as confirmation from Him. But in all actually is that really possible, considering that I have "unconfessed" sin???
So what is God? Is he some power tripping masochist that wants us to relive every bad decision we've ever made and gravel for forgiveness? (and by the way... lets remember, I'm questioning, not being sacrilegious here) I don't know the answers, I don't know what to do, but I'd love your input or thoughts. I do know that I don't really want to be a part of this Christianity thing if God really is a God who, when you tick him off, he takes his toys and goes home.
Watch out for the lightning!
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7 comments:
I've struggled with alot of those same thoughts too and this is the foundation of my everything...faith. Because I don't know up from down, right from left, what God's thinking...and even when I do think I know what He's thinking, half the time I'm not doing what I should anyways, because I'm a human. I need Him to guide me. Period. I don't always say this to Him in prayer, but it's constantly in my brain. I have to do my best to take whatever comes my way and accept it. Trust Him. In the happy times, it's easy. I suffer from depression at times and when that hits it's so hard for me to have any hope....but I TRY to trust Him.
I kinda got this deal going on with God. If there's something He wants me to do/be doing, He needs to kinda let me know.
I don't worry about swearing, having a beer...even having sex...because I can't. I don't do any of these things frivolously...like I'm not a huge party animal slut...but I just live yanno.
I tell God you created Me. Jesus understands what it's like to be here on earth. Sometimes, it's really hard. Always, it's really confusing. I need your guidance. Help me.
Then I try to take each day and just live and when I get to heaven and face Him, I know I'll be ashamed, but I hope when He sees thru me, the person I am today, He will know my heart, and my heart is trusting Him.
To me Steph, God is not the fire and brimstone God we were raised to think of Him as. Yes, He gets mad....but, He also loves us as His children. We are his children. So He loves you like you love Russel. But yes, you do get mad at Russel at times, but you also guide him. Yanno...? You punish him, but you don't turn your back on him...you punish him so he LEARNS.
I know you can also try soooo hard and be soooo gooood and suffer. Everyone does/will. Everything isn't a punishment, sometimes things just happen. I don't know why. Why are people born into suffering, why does all the crazy stuff that goes on in the world happen...I don't know. But I'm living in this crazy place and all I can do is spread that God loves people. Not in a crazy fanatical pass out tracts way (yes, I had to do that too, my mom used to always hand them to me and make me give them to strangers and say "here's something to read when you get a chance..") but just let people know I live my life by faith and I believe in God, I believe in Jesus.
I watched my parents try to do everything right and lose their son to suicide. Granted, of course they didn't do everything right, but they were trying to follow every rule...no pants, no movie, no music, you know the drill.....
After my brother died my dad's company closed and my mom and him had to relocate to Indiana. They hate it there. They're away from everyone that they know and love.
I look at them and wonder why. Why do these good hearted people have to endure the pain of losing their 14 yr old son, and then live miles away from family.
I don't know, but God does, and all they can do is trust He knows what He's doing and trust Him to guide their path.
If I were you, I'd roll up all those emotions in a big bag and hand them to God. Tell Him you WANT to know how to feel, but you don't. Just give him your burden and trust He will guide you. That's all anybody CAN do.
No, you don't need to confess all your sins to God. He already knows them. He knows your HEART steph, and your heart is good. He loves you. He's not sitting up there in heaven mad at you or laughing at your pain.
I don't think there is a right or a wrong answer here. I think God knows your soul. You don't have to say a prayer everyday, it's in your heart all the time, I can tell it is. yanno... that's prayer itself...just the though cuz He knows all your thoughts.
I'm like you, I tend to forget to pray when the goings good and pray alot when things aren't smooth, but I also tell God I'm aware I do that, and I'm sorry, please know I 'm trying. All we can do is our best, and our best will never be good enough. But we gotta try.
But we are human and it's not just cut and dried...do this...don't do that....we're always sinning yanno, maybe just emotions that we feel that we shouldn't. We are human and our minds just have these emotions/feelings that are there.
I'm rambling, I wish I could write like you do because you are a awesome writer!! You should write a book or something. I love reading your blog. #1 because I feel like I know what's going on in your life and I LOVE that!! #2, you entertain me everytime I read it! Even if you are having a bad day, and it's a sad post....you find some sarcastic/funny spin to put on it that makes me think, man, she should really be a author!! The girl rocks at writing!!!!!
Well, I don't know if what I said makes any sense to you, and I don't know if it works for you, but that's the conclusion I've come to...so far....
I am glad I am not the only one who is Ticked off about G-pa (not to mention some other stuff) :)
This is amazing Steph. Your profound honesty has nearly left me speechless. Your devotion to God has always been something I have admired, but i believe you nothing more than human to question certain aspects of religion. Especially in the face of adversity. Bottom Line~ there are many different beliefs, theories, religions, to grasp onto. My theory? It's simple.
God does not judge. He is whole, he is spirited, and he too, once made mistakes. He is loving, and accepting, and he knows not of divorce being a "sin" as portrayed in so many eyes, but as a caution~ a take heed if you will to further ventures. Things happen. Choices are made. Mistakes arise, and we learn form them. And though it may not been what you prayed for, I believe it was your path. No matter how painful it is. Everything happens for a reason. And I believe, our paths are already mapped out for us~ we are just merely walking, living, and learning them. Sometimes, God doesnt give you what you ask for. But it is so for a reason. And though we may never know what that is, we have to trust that he does.
Life happens. It develops. and we are human. He knows this. He created us! I do not believe in a MILLION YEARS that our God would want us to live in utter angst, deceit, anger, miscommunication, irritability, and mostly~ without love. Sure, he would want us to honor our partner, and try our damndest to make it work, but not at everyones expense~ especially that of a child. Our God wouldnt want that. Woudl he? TO live that way? Potentially for life? Just for the sake of vows we took? For a piece of paper? For a promise?
What about the promise to live your life the truest way I know how? The promise to live your life for that of you adn your child? For happiness and comfort and positivity.......and love.....A love that your child will grow up knowing....Not one that he would question....
You pulled out all the stops. You acted when action needed be. And you werent suaded by even your strongest beliefs. You chose, for that moment, to believe in YOU, and that beautiful boy of yours. And Im sorry, but no matter what anyone says, I dont think God's lesson could've shone more through.
I love you. I am here for you. And I truly admire your strength adn knowledge of self worth that you possess. You are amazing child, and wonderful things are going to come your way....You'll see!
I want to step into this subject very carefully because it peppered with trite terms that we have heard from many of our Fundamental backgrounds and they seem to cause us to cringe whenever they show up.
Foundationally, there is something that we, as Believers/those who profess Christ as our Savior, have to understand before the rest is going to make sense.
First, we have to clear up some terms/concepts, because if we don't, we will struggle to get very far. Understand that if you are "saved", and I use that term simply because it is understood what I mean and it is short to type, that your position in Christ means that your are already forgiven. Thus, if you sin, you are still forgiven. If you never confess those sins, you are still forgiven. Our sins are forgiven past, present, and thankfully, future.
That brings us to the next idea and that is of relation. When we sin, we don't lose our relationship with God, though it is somewhat hindered. Unfortunately, all we have is our earthly relationships to compare it to, and that can be somewhat accurate, but maybe a little misleading. When we sin, the fellowship is hindered, repentance of the sin is what brings back fellowship, however, the relationship is still there.
I want to add here a side thought. I have heard all my life that God will chastise his children, thus meaning, if you sin too much, you will suffer the consequences. I can agree with that, to an extent, but it is purely in a natural order of human existance and Scripture does address this. For the most part, Biblical living is one of moderation, esteaming others, and making wise/moral decisions. When I was younger, I didn't go around having unprotected sex because I was afraid I would get hammered by God, it was because I was afraid that it might result in a kid or a burning sensation when I peed. (On a side note, I didn't have sex at all because I wanted to please God...and no girls found me attractive enough...but that is for another day.) I think we are basically talking good, better best. I want God's best for my life and family, so I try to obey the best I am able, yet I can still have a relationship with God and still doubt, struggle, fail and all that stuff. The point is, I want to avoid the downfall of poor choices. I'm selfish, my relationships struggle. I'm undisciplines, my job/family/life can tank. Be contoled by something other than the Spirit...good ole life drama. This is not a hard principle, because sometime there are no consequences, but the majority of the time it is from living unbiblical. Look at the majority of people whose lives have "blown up" and you will see it was caused by selfishness or the ablity to maintain balance(discipline)
in the life of one or more individuals
Anyhow, I hope I explained my point well enough and now that I reread it, I know there is so much more to say along with it, but it is getting late and I have so much more to say.
We also have to compare the difference between the words confession and repentance.
Confession is simply saying "I'm sorry". It is a tool to try to eliminate guilt and sooth the conscience in the moment. I'm sorry I got caught...etc. I'm not saying it is wrong to "confess", but it is usually very egocentric.
Repentance, on the other hand, is something completely different. My good friend Toby said it best(illustated it from the pulpit as well): "Confession is not asking for forgiveness, it is a turning away from sin and turning to Christ"
Alright, here is where people miss it. Repentance is basically confession with submission. It isn't enough to simply say I am sorry for "sinning"(which is basically violating Biblical Truths), but it is bringing one's life into submission to foundational Truths. A surrendering of the will.
Case in point, I cheat on Amanda and get caught. Trust me, after she mops the floor with me...I am sorry. Anyhow, I say "I am sorry" and we try to salvage the relationship. However, I continue calling the other woman, I keep the letters she wrote me, I continue getting a little on the side, etc. Did I confession the sin? Yep. Did I repent? Nope, because even though I confessed with my mouth, I didn't confess with my life. I never turned from the other woman back to my wife. Relationally we could never live like that...so is it fair to try to live at that level with God.
On another side note, I don't know everyone on your blog, but something that kella bella said about promises is very important from a spiritual standpoint. I'm not disagreeing with the comment, but I want you to ask yourself this question: Should we take our promises to God seriously in light of the promises He has made to us? Just a thought.
Now, this brings us to some hard questions. Some of which I know you are asking, both here on this blog and internally, and I am very proud of you for doing so.
So, here we go.
What about divorce? I mean, we all know God hates divorce. Ask any person in church and they would have to say that God hates divorce. Um Steph, you are getting a divorce...and God hates those who file for divorce especially bad.
Check this equation out: God hates divorce + Steph is getting a divorce = God hates Steph. Unfortunately, that is how many view it. It's not true though.
Now, don't get me wrong, God does hate divorce. He takes vows very seriously and there will be consequences that divorcees and their children will face...but does God hate divorce any more that...say...Gossip? Nope. Lust? Nope. Def Leppard? Uh, actually, God does hate Def Leppard more, but that is beside the point...
My point is, you can be divorced and still know God and have a relationship with Him and live without guilt. Would it probably have been best to stay married? Maybe, I don't know. What I do know is this...there is hope for you wherever you are at in your life. That one of the lasting truths of the Gospels - It is never too late...You are never so far gone that God doesn't want you...God loves you, even when you don't love Him.
This is also on a side note...I understand being mad at God for what He did to your Grandfather and while I didn't know him at all...he sounds like he would be cool...let's put God on the shelf for this question.
Would your grandfather, who probably loved his grandchildren more than life, want them carrying around the burden of anger and disappointment because of him?
Anyhow, back to the point...
I think God understands that we are emotional creatures. That hurts, wrong choices, painful circumstances can throw us for a loop...the certainly have me...but the key is in the quest. Or maybe the questions?
Where are you at? What do you want God to do in your life? Why can't I seem to make this work?
The great thing is that you don't have to face these things alone. I think God uses people around us to challenge and push us further on the path. What you originally wrote in your blog, along with the comments, have forced me to think out further what I believe and why. That's good stuff.
We love ya and keep searching and looking. I know that you are not perfect(who is? Except Joss Whedon) but you have two big fans in the Mertes'.
Now would you look at that...you just wasted 2 hours of my life making me think and type...
*****CLARIFICATION NEEDED*****
OK several people have mentioned something to me in regards to this post, so I'm just going to clarify.
I am NOT bitter about my Grandpa's death anymore. I was just using that as a reference point of when I can remember things starting to turn for me. That was years ago, and I've dealt with it. I don't like it, never will... but I've dealt with it.
and
Divorce... I was using that as an example, and while it is a sticking point in my life. And something that I struggle with, and will for a long time. The point was confession... I'm just unsure what to think about confession.
Your thoughts have been AWESOME!! You've given me much to think about and I will reply later with my own comments, once I have time to read, re-read, and digest these comments.
Seriously... you guys rock!!! :)
**Tead this quick, I may delete it if I find a better way to say what's in my head!**
An interesting thing I noticed in 2 responses here. 2 of you said... that our sins are forgiven even if we don't confess (as long as we're "Saved") If that statement is true, then why on earth does it say in I John to Confess with our Mouth? (I think it's I john... it's one of the johns)
I get what you're saying Jay about repentence. So basically if I run with that, I can screw up, not be appologetic for the mistake, but know it was wrong and not do it again... ergo repentance... ergo forgiveness????
And Jenny... you said to give my bag of emo over to God. Well, that's fine, but really what purpose would that serve?
Essentially what I"m getting from everyone is this...
you can be a Christian, and that's it. or you can be a Christian and develop a relationship with God. Either way your a christian, either way you're going to heaven, the only thing that is different is that with one, you're getting in, with the other, you're getting in, AND getting to know this Spiritual Being called Christ.
correct?
So basically it boils down to go to heaven, or go to heaven and serve the Lord, get to know him, and his wants for you, etc etc. Either way you have a relationship, one is just deeper than the other??
What about all those verses about God being a jealous God, and honoring his commandments? To me that sounds like a God who is saying... Do this or else I don't rightly care for you.
Sometimes I think... if I were God, I would still love me. Kinda like Jenny said with Russell and correcting him because he's my child. The Bible says we're supposed to think of God as our Father, so in that respect I think... ok... I screwed up , I let Him down, but overall I'm ok. Then as I was once told... if I were a GOOD CHRISTIAN I would forgive. I would forgive my husband for wronging me, and I would continue on my way, AND if I were a GOOD christian, then I wouldn't even CONSIDER divorce to begin with. I think it was implied at that point that perhaps I wasn't even a Christian to begin with. because if I were... I would suck it up. lol
So am I less of a Christian because I a) considered it and b) am not confessing it as a sin?
again... going with this example, as opposed to another. We could run with Jays example of cheating, or bitterness, or whatever. I'm just using divorce cuz it's the most readily available. The same questions apply.
**sidebar**
Jenny... you KNOW you want to be a huge party animal slut. Don't lie!!! lol
Jay... FORGET the burning sensation when you pee... have you SEEN an STD test done on a male???? WOWZA!!! I've seen it done, and belive me... that's what I'm taking Russell to see someday. I don't even have the equipment and I cringed on that one! And you can let Amanda know I have her back up. After she got tired of mopping the floor with you, I'd pummel you until she got her strength back! lol.
The biggest problem we are having here is the one I was afraid of and I knew when I wrapped up my last comment that I hadn't done a very good job detailing the extent of what I meant.
It's not an easy thing we are trying to define and map out. This is the reason why we have church...to regularly search the Scriptures together and grow together in knowledge and understanding. Everything was meant to be seen in totality and when we pull out one theological idea or doctrine, it can seem out of balance or difficult to comprehend...and some are.
So. first things first. The verse you quoted about confession is legit, however, not to what we are talking about.
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9
This was talking more specifically about confessing Christ publically, both verbally and outwardly, in a culture that would put you to death or the lions...which about the same. Unless it was the Detroit Lions...then they would have a chance...
Where was I?
(I get what you're saying Jay about repentence. So basically if I run with that, I can screw up, not be appologetic for the mistake, but know it was wrong and not do it again... ergo repentance... ergo forgiveness????)-Steph
You could, I guess, and a lot of people do..which is the core problem. Christianity wasn't meant to be lived that way. Why do you think so many people are dissatified with church and Christianity? Well, 2 reasons: a) Church isn't doing its part. b) Christianity isn't the Hokie-Pokie. You can't put one foot in and wiggle it all about...It was meant to put your whole self in and...wiggle it all about? You know what I mean. It can't be lived half hearted. So, the question of fire insurance and get out of hell free isn't enough. It shouldn't be. Another Fundamentalist myth.
Another aspect of this is obedience. This is a tough one. There are verses that should scare us with the whole chasitizement thing, but ultimately, it is back to relationship. We follow Christ, not because we fear punishment, but because we love Him...and the result is disappointment...not exactly what I want to say, but I can't think of any other way to say it. Again, it is a level of maturity and intimacy that many will never understand because they want surrender of their lives when it comes to eternity, just not the day to day bit.
All in or fold...maybe that's why I like poker so much.
http://bible.cc/1_john/1-9.htm
Check this link out because it has more info then I care to type out.
To me, it always seems to come back to one thing - Submission. Without it, the Way just won't make sense. In the times that I have struggled and tanked, it was because I didn't want to submit...which is another huge subject.
Again, as far as confession is concerned, Christianity wasn't meant to be lived in the closet. It was meant to be declared by our lives and words.
I'm sure I'm missing something.
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