Ok, so I'm sitting here at work listening to a program and they're talking about personal relationships with God. Someone is sharing their testimony about the horrible life they lived, then they saw the light and I think they heard the hallelujah chorus in the background, and waaaallaaa they were saved.
Now I know not everyone who reads this is from the same background I am, nor are you regular church attenders. Heck I haven't been a regular church attender in YEARS until recently. So my question here is this... what do you consider a personal relationship with Christ to be? do you think you have to --to quote an old professor-- read your Bible, pray everyday, and everything will be ok-- or are you of the opinion that you don't have to do all that.
I'm not sure where I fall. I'm still thinking on this one. I mean, I know I'm a Christian, I can remember my conversion experience, but at the same time I never heard the hallelujah chorus.... I've never had some weird-o experience where I heard the voice of God in the middle of the night, or whatever else. But, back to the point... even though I wasn't in church regularly I still had an acute awareness of my ummm.... Christianity.... not sure of that's the word I want. But I mean, I still don't know what I'm doing, God and I have been fighting for awhile now, and yes, Michelle, I know... God always wins. But even when we're fighting it's still a relationship, right?
Anyway
I'll give you my opinion later, I'd like to hear yours first. Respond if you'd like, don't if you don't... it's all good.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
10 comments:
I believe your realtionship with god is completely personal. Faith is all he really asks, or at least thats my heathen belief!! For what its worht...
HAPPY JUNE BACK
I agree with anonymous.
anonymous really can NOT spell....
:)
Here is my answer
http://rantingandravingbyj.blogspot.com/2007/05/authentic-christianity.html
I just don't feel like typing it all out again. Also, I will copy/paste part of a conversation on Toby's blog about following Christ.
-I'm not sure what I am going to say is completely correct or even theologically correct, but I am going to say it anyway. It is what I believe to be true in my life.
I have never once thought about why I chose to follow Christ..the issues of how and what have always been on the forefront of my mind, so maybe it was just because, in my simpliness, I never got that far.
Do I have to agree with truth for it to be real? My father doesn't think so. He believes that truth is defined by our experience and if a tree fell in the woods and he wasn't there to see it, in his "truth" it doesn't exist or matter.
Do I have to fall off a roof to understand the truth of gravity? Not really. It is revealed as truth if I chose to accept it or not. I may not understand the laws of thermodynamics or energy completely, but some truths have been revealed regardless of my experience. Just because I choose not to believe that energy cannot be destroyed or created, just tranformed/tranmuted(I think that is one of the laws...been a long time since I studied that stuff), does not change that truth in my presence.
We do not choose truth, we submit to it. If we chose not to submit to truth, there are consequences...injury, death and Hell are revealed consequences of not submitting to truth.
Now, the subjectivity of the experience of coming to truth is different in each case. When I realized (probably illuminated to it) that Christ was the Truth, I chose to submit to that truth, I didn't chose to make that truth.
I could write a book about the revelation of that truth to me(again subjective) but in the end it is the same - I choose to submit. My choice in no way determined the dynamic of that Truth, it simply brought me in unity with it.
Ultimately, I think there is a mystery here and I doubt it will be solved in these comments, yet what was originally proposed by Toby, or what I understand of what he is saying(mostly because of experiences) is again vital to what I believe to be true.
Truth needs no help. If what Christ says is true, then it will stand on it's own. It doesn't need people to help it along; that is the purpose of the Holy Spirit. It is not our responsibilty to manipulate people into service or submission. Nor can should we browbeat them into the Kingdom. We need not disparage their beliefs or culture to "save" them. Truth will reveal itself as true if it really is such.
Ultimately, the only thing that we have control over is our submission to the Truth that we say we believe in. Flesh it out, live it, walk the walk, whatever you want to call it, we need to do it.
Unfortunately, instead of submitting to the Truth and making the Word flesh in our lives and showing what a life in unity with said Truth looks like, many walk around pompous and judgmental. They preach a Gospel of contension. They judge with pride in their hearts because of a Truth that they had no hand in creating. When you submit to truth, you become a servant of it, not it's master.
The reputation of Authenity Christianity has been marred by those who believe that they possess the Truth, rather than be possessed by it.
If indeed I have a choice, then I give it up so that I may be a servant.
This was more a answer to the ideals of truth, but it sums up alot of what I believe.
So in the bare bones simplest terms, you're saying if you recoginze Christ as your Savior, then you have a relationship with him. You don't feel that you really HAVE to do much else except, accept the "truth" that Christ is, what he is... correct?
And if I'm correct in understanding what you're saying, then what about all that stuff growing up where you had to have your devotions, and you had to pray, and you had to do all this other stuff... are you saying that's not necessary?
I personally don't think it is necessary. I think that there doesn't have to be this big showy thing where I'm praying for 3hrs a day, and reading 5 chapters in my bible a day. I think it's good, I mean sure, it's always good to pray and read the Bible. I think there will be benefits to it. --increased knowlege, etc etc-- but I don't think it is NECESSARY.
I'm just confused becasue I do hear all these people go on and on about what the Lord has "Said" to them or how they ahd this "feeling" or whatever. And I've never had that. I mean maybe I'm just stupid, which is totally possible, but I'm just like... I try to pray everyday, but in big and little decisions I'll pray about them and from there I just go with my gut. I mean if I have peace great if I don't then I'll rethink it. Overall... I'm just not buying the whole daily devo's/church thing. I don't think you HAVE to go to church to have a relationship with God and I don't think you HAVE to read your Bible everyday either. But that's just me. And MY heathan belief-- which is subject to change at any point in time, because I'm a girl and that's what I do... :)
I don't have time for the big answer I want to give...I dying right now. Very sick and I won't be in church tomorrow, so since it is after midnight, I will try to be very spiritual to cover for my lack of church...
Prayer and devotions are essential marks of the Christian life, yet they are done out of relationship, not guilt or in the hope to have that relationship.
In basic terms, you are correct, we don't have to do anything after "salvation". We are "positionally" justified by His Blood, however, there is so much in the Scripture about what comes after, probably just as much or more than the core of the Gospels.
We are because of what Christ did, not because of what we do now. I don't know how else to phrase it.
Relationships based in knowing and understanding the other, so there is the connection to prayer and devos, but it is also connection to others and service.
You picked a deep subject, one that is not easily answered, the best I can do it say that I want to KNOW God/Jesus, so I can see how to live.
Follow this link and find "Wrong Turn at Albuqueque". It tells a little about what I believe daily life is about. http://rantingandravingbyj.blogspot.com/2007_04_01_archive.html
I hate writing again.
Bummer you're sick. It sucks being sick in the summer/spring. I can accept it in fall and winter, but not summer or spring. It's just not right! I hope no one else gets it!!!
You did a great job being extra spiritual, so I will give you an excused absence from church.... this time. :) Rene and Val were there with thier brood.
Anyway good stuff at your Albuqueque post. I agree... life it made up of daily choices. And I never really thought of God's plan for us in that way.
I realize that by having a regular time to read your Bible you will grow in wisdom, but I guess, I just don't know how realistic that is. Sure it sounds great, and I don't think anything bad will come of it. But at the same time... I just don't know... I've walked that route, I've done all that, and I've been in a place where I haven't done all that, and frankly... I'm not sure I see a difference.
I'm still aware of Christ and what he's done for me, just as I was when I was having regular devo's. I still consider all the ramifications of each decision before it's made, and what would please the Lord.
I don't know, it's a tough one. And dare I say... if I had known how much was invovled in becoming a Christian... I may have very well thought the better of it. :) And that WAS a joke... sorta.
What I do know is that I don't want to be one of those people who pray only when times are hard, or things are going bad. Nor do I want to be one of those people who are half hearted in their walk. However I'm trying to A) figure out what all that entails in regards to what I've been taught. and B) figure out how to do that and not loose me. I don't want to be fake, I don't want to be some pias hypocrite, and I don't want to be a stuffy, person who only talks about my Bible reading, church, and whatever else.
Anyway... whatever... Why is it you hate writing again?
How does anyone know they have a relationship with Jesus?
Isn't a relationship two-way?
I know I had a relationship with my child when he was born, though. I loved him and her even before they were out of the womb. But, they didn't have a relationship with me, did they?
I guess I get kinda wondering about the whole relationship terminology used with God and Jesus.
If you removed the terminology what would you be left with?
I think you'd be left with agreeing with Jesus' teaching, loving him for who he was and what he did, and wanting to follow them because you believe they are the right way to live.
Doing that may be a HUGE step for some people - i.e. their "conversion experience" - where they final decide, "yup, this is it, he's it, I'm in." But, I don't know about a "relationship."
People can say they "feel" God there with them, "hear" God speak to them, and "know" that he is real, etc. But, I have no problem living out what I reduced it to without the relationship terminology, Steph.
Hope you don't mind me dropping thoughts around here, since now I know who's blog this is...hehehe
Hey, any fellow coke drinker who listens to Prince is welcome to post ANYtime! :) --there's so few of us left you know...--
Thanks for your thoughts. Maybe that's my hangup... terminology. I don't know. The way YOU broke it down, it seems pretty simple.
I don't know...
I think I need therapy!!! All those years at the academy have screwed me up... can I get an Amen Jaime??? :) Sister... hello??? LOL..
I think a relationship with Christ means something different to everyone. I really think that as long as we believe in God and try your best to live like he wants us to then we are doing our best. I don't think he expects us to be perfect...(I'm really hoping I'm right on that one!) I do think reading the Bible and going to church are important. But personally...I have a very short attention span and even the Bible doesn't hold my atttention (sorry God) It is really hard to get myself to read it so I really, honestly only do it in SS class or church or if I'm looking something up. Thank God my Mom brought us to church from birth on ... A lot of it has stuck through the years. I do love going to church. But I'm not always regular and I don't think God keeps an attendance card. I think he just knows it's good for us to socialize and learn with other Christians. I think our God is a lot more awesome then a lot of people realize.
Anyways.... just my thoughts.
SW
Post a Comment